Karmen Tang & Olivia Coleon
For this month’s YY Woman to Woman, we talked in-depth with 2 friends, Karmen Tang from Another Startup Story and Olivia Coleon from The Vibe Project and Musiio, both of whom bonded over their love of music and shared their similar values in life with us.
Together, they curated a Spotify playlist that showcases the coming together: Karmen (LDN) and Olivia (NYC). Kicking off with deep house and techno from the underground scene in LDN - sprinkled with a pinch of downtempo, rounding off with global beats and attitude from Olivia's NYC.
Interviewed by Maria & Felicia
15-20 mins read
How did you girls meet?
Karmen: When I first moved to Singapore back in 2018, I was in the midst of starting a new business, and so was really interested in the entrepreneurial space. At the time, Olivia was hosting a series of events called “Naked Nights”, with the intention to encourage vulnerability. The event I went to was on the topic of ‘entrepreneurship.’
At the end of the night, she introduced herself and mentioned the fact that she used to work at Boiler Room in New York. As a big music lover, of course, I went up to her and asked her to grab a coffee.
Olivia: And that was the beginning of the end! I love Karmen, she’s one of my closest friends and we’re each other’s biggest supporters here in Singapore.
Karmen & Olivia, at a music festival
How do you spend your time outside of work and how do you destress?
K: We are both members at Hom Yoga and I convinced Olivia to join, which has been an incredible way for us both to destress and recharge. After class, we’ll grab a coffee and maybe a croissant or two and chat. Sometimes just spending quality time with your friends is all you need to destress. For us, it’s as simple as ordering pizza and chilling on the couch having DMCs.
O: Yoga has always been a big thing for me when it comes to de-stressing - I’ve been practising for almost 15 years. So it’s really nice to share that with a friend, running into Karmen in a locker room and seeing a friendly face –– that’s a great thing about Singapore.
It’s also about making sure that we have that quality time together as friends - and as women. Women need to have time to talk and voice things, talk through challenges, thoughts and ideas. Both Karmen and I live with significant others, and so finding the space can sometimes be difficult, but anytime my husband is out of the house, Karmen comes over. We order pizza, talk and catch up, and listen to music. And we’re both quite spiritual, so we often talk about larger life questions, which is a quality that we both really value.
K: Just the ability to zoom out with someone and not get so caught up in the day-to-day. Often, when we do meet up we start with day-to-day catch-ups but our conversation usually ends up on a much bigger scale like our purpose in life or our visions for the future, so it’s nice to bounce ideas off of each other. Staying away from technology helps me to destress. You’re not allowed to take your phone in yoga class with you and so whenever I’m on the mat - it feels super grounding. It’s just you and the mat. It’s a good space to re-centre.
O: Totally - and having that philosophy extend also to our interactions. So when Karmen and I are hanging out, we know that it’s our time, so we’re not on our phones. Which is a great way to de-stress because you’re able to be in the present.
Karmen Tang
Olivia Coleon
Karmen
I know Karmen you’ve been focusing on your Podcast and the business, another story startup. Olivia, do you mind sharing a bit about what you’re working on currently. And where do you both get your creativity from?
O: I’ve worked in the music industry my whole career, about 13 years now. When I moved to Singapore four years ago, I started my own business doing music curation for hospitality spaces. That’s now my side hustle, and my full-time role is as Head of Music and People at Musiio, a music AI startup based here in Singapore. As Head of Music, I help to train our AI to listen to music as a human would; and as Head of People, I help to set the cultural tone of the company. Especially as we grow, creating a positive work environment, where people are empowered to be creative and able to do their best work, is critical. Being open and honest about mental health and wellbeing (we openly take “mental health days”), is key in humanizing the workplace.
When it comes to finding my creativity, I listen to lots of music. There’s nothing like putting on some tunes and getting in the moment and raising your vibe a little bit. I’m also a regular meditator, which is important to me because it provides mental space. With our hyper-scheduled lives, creativity is often something we feel we need to “fit in” to our schedules. But it doesn’t work like that, creativity doesn’t arrive on demand. It comes when we give space for it to come in, when our minds are relaxed. And that’s what meditation gives me.
K: For me, where I’m most inspired is usually when I’m on unknown territory aka traveling. I used to travel once a month and was always so inspired by new cultures, new cuisines and new music. I felt like traveling created analogies for me to see life from a different perspective. Obviously, when the pandemic happened, it was tough - I felt like I had lost a part of my identity. I had to find creativity through routine. And so I got super intentional with creating a solid morning routine that involves some form of journaling, reading and working out. It’s in the quiet time, when you don’t have to think about annoying things that drain your creativity like; ‘what I need to make for lunch’ or ‘what time I need to have this meeting’ where you find your flow and abstract thinking. This year, I personally found it through routines and rituals. Getting up that extra hour earlier to have quiet time before the madness is gold! It’s important to be intentional in finding this space for yourself.
O: Oh man, travelling! I think it’s been so long, I’ve forgotten about the level of inspiration that comes from exploration. And through listening and observing. When we listen more in conversations, especially with someone who may seem very different - that’s when we get new perspectives.
K: I don’t think we can box creativity. Another startup story was started with the intention to inspire and educate people in the arenas of creativity and entrepreneurship. I was personally so inspired and learnt a lot through intimate conversations with other start-up founders. Learning not just from a strategic perspective or business level but through personal development too. I’m really big on development, mindset and neuroscience, and so listening to other people and seeing how they live their lives is always a new inspiration for me.
What are some important things that you have learned throughout your career that you can share with other women?
K: I qualified as a Chartered Accountant after University and started my career in a very corporate environment. I then went on to work as the Financial Controller in an advertising agency. I remember always being the only woman in the boardroom and this experience taught me that women need to take more initiative in their finances - not only from a professional circumstance but also on a personal level.
Historically, men were the breadwinners. Even when you look at female freelancers or contractors, they often seem to be undercharging - especially in the creative space. We have this weird thing where we find it harder to negotiate.
There was a Harvard study that looked at three cases; the first being a man negotiating a salary increase for himself, secondly, a female negotiating for her own salary increase, and finally a female negotiating on behalf of another man. The best results came from the final focus group. This is interesting to see that women were better negotiators, BUT only when it was on behalf of someone else. When it comes to commercial and business acumen, I was fortunate to learn from the industry I started out in. But it is important for anyone (even if you’re not in business or finance) to be able to educate yourself in this arena whether that’s to start a business or to build financial wealth for a better quality of living.
O: As they say in my high school (an all-girls school), “A man is not a financial plan!” *chuckles* I completely identify with what Karmen is saying. I always find it difficult to negotiate for myself, it’s always easier to negotiate for someone else. When it does come time to negotiate for myself, I find that writing down and tracking all the things I’m doing, what I’ve achieved or am proud of - building my case and seeing the facts of what I’ve done makes me feel more confident. I have also found that at times, the work isn’t evenly distributed. Women are often relied upon to step up if someone needs help or if something extra needs to be done, and women do tend to take on a lot of emotional labour at the workplace. However, the empathetic qualities of women are absolutely a superpower and can take us very far in our careers. Setting boundaries (emotional, energetic etc.) is extremely important so that we don’t take on too much of anyone else’s energy - and so we have more space to focus on ourselves, our work and anything else we’d like.
K: It’s important to not spread yourself too thin.
How do you support each other during difficult times?
K: The unique thing about our friendship is that Olivia and I have been through similar challenges from a career and professional level. Whether that’s challenges in gaining new clients, pitching or negotiating. We’re able to be there for each other and give advice on business strategy but also from a values perspective. Because our values are so aligned, I go to her for life advice too.
O: Just saying the words “I’m here” or “I got your back.” Sending messages like, “Hey, sending you good vibes today” and not expecting a response. Sometimes when you’re going through something difficult, you don’t want to talk about it, you just want to be. Hanging out together, watching Sex and the City and putting the phone away. Having that quality time and being present. Letting them know that you are really there because people can be available physically but not mentally.
What are your views on beauty & wellness? Any influences? And how have your philosophy and practices changed throughout the years?
K: My perspective on beauty has changed so much over the past 5 years. I’ve always taken a natural approach and I don’t really wear much makeup (especially since moving to a humid climate). When I think of beauty, I zoom in on skincare, but also what I eat and drink and how often I exercise. Wellness is wholeness. It’s the complete integration with checking in with myself in all areas of life, knowing how I feel and where I am stagnant. It’s about asking myself ‘what areas need more attention?’ I like to look at how I can increase my wellbeing from all perspectives; emotionally, spiritually, and physically. I’m constantly fine-tuning and finding new routines or rituals to upgrade my life - whether it’s gua sha or TCM and educating myself on Eastern natural approaches.
I’m also very intentional about which products I use and always look at what ingredients are inside to make sure I choose conscious brands. Investing in products that have less toxic chemicals and try to take a more sustainable approach.
O: Karmen and I are really aligned on this. We both approach beauty more holistically and naturally and I love that more natural products are available now. When I lived in Bali, I started using Cantika Zest, a local skincare company who handmakes their products from the ingredients of their garden. This is as natural as you can get and my skin was thanking me! It’s hard to find brands like this outside of places like Bali, but that one year in Bali truly showed the importance of a natural-based skincare routine, plus how amazing facials are ;)
I agree that beauty starts with skincare and that we need to educate ourselves more around skin, products etc. I just don’t know where to look! And to know which review, tip or trick is sincere. So it would be great to have access to more unbiased information around this.
K: We have to take ownership in educating and learning more about our bodies. What I mean by this is to be more proactive about taking care of yourself as opposed to waiting until things go wrong, then trying to fix them. Always making sure we get to the root of the problem.
Q: Do you experience PMS? Or do you get emotional before or during your period?
K: I get quite bad cramps so I try to avoid major social plans and intense exercises during this time.
O: I’m one of the lucky ones and don’t suffer from bad cramps, PMS… but I am quite mindful of when I’m on my cycle and how to take care of myself a bit more. Whether it’s purposefully going to bed earlier, drinking tea instead of coffee, a midweek facial, I think it’s important we take care of ourselves always, but especially on our periods!
Q: Speaking of mood, what are some music you listen to when you’re on your period feeling down or to help you get through the day?
O: Music is such a powerful tool in shifting our emotions. Anytime I need a pump up before work I can put on some boss hip hop, or if I need to channel more positive vibes, maybe some reggae or afrobeats. Music is so liberating and such a vibe lifter for me. I’m in a total flow zone when listening to tunes.
I’m working with te awa, a new space on Telok Ayer that runs dance raves. We’re working on playlists focused on certain feelings - like liberation, joy, empowerment. This is what music is. It is emotion, it does evoke feelings. So use it to feel those feelings girl!
K: I’m that person who always needs to have music on, whether I’m out walking or cycling you’ll find me with my AirPods in. As soon as I get home, I will put music on before anything else. If I’m on my period, I like to factor in more chill or downtime. I have a Sunday playlist that has a lot of indie downtempo tracks from artists such as London Grammar, Rhye, and Bonobo.
If I’m working, then I like to have classical music on. Nils Frahm is my favourite at the moment. He’s known for combining classical and electronic music - taking an unconventional approach with the piano.
I also love Anjunadeep - a more melodic, house electronic version of Above and Beyond. If I want to get hyped up at the gym or on a night out (very rare these days haha), I’ll indulge in deep house and techno. Artists often on repeat for me are Bicep, Four Tet or Sasha. To be honest, I listen to many different genres, recently I’ve discovered Hand Pan music which is very relaxing, probably great for that time of the month. Music is such an integral part of both mine and Olivia’s lives - which is probably why we connected in the first place.
